The last thing I want to do is develop Direct3D, cause it is just strengthening a massive monopoly.
there’s no logic in this. by developing applications that target windows, you’re supporting windows, regardless of the api you use. if you want to hurt microsoft, stop developing for them, and stop buying their products. of course, you’re hurting people by doing this, but who cares? they’re not real people; they’re just microsoft employees…
nobody cares what api you use, navgen. and the microsoft monopoly issue, real or imagined, is not at issue here.
If I wanted to code only for single console called Windows Vista PC, I would not argue… so then, MS should not implement OpenGL 10 years ago in the first place. I mean, we should draw with windows GDI… So it implies two things:
frankly, your logic escapes me. if there’s a crescendo in your reasoning with this statement, i missed it.
- There is no FREEDOM of choice.
you do have a choice, actiongl: don’t develop for windows. the notion that it’s opengl’s god given right to exist on all platforms equally is ridiculous on the face of it. i understand, as a developer, that its aesthetically appealing and convenient to have a single api for all occasions, i just don’t see this as a logical guide and end for all endeavors, particularly ones the hold the end-user in the highest regard, not the developer. i know that may come as a blow to you, but i’m sure that you would have to agree, at least on a fiscal basis.
anyway, this issue isn’t without precedent. for instance, if you develop applications under windows, chances are you use the win32 sdk, or one of its incarnations. you don’t need a choice, though you do actually have some, each with their respective strengths and weaknesses, and each an api that sits atop the win32 api. most use the win32 api directly, because it’s there, it works, and it allows you to access the entirety of the windows gamut while offering the best performance.
now, as graphics becomes more of an integral part of the operating system experience, it’s going to be increasingly difficult to abstract the graphics provider in such a way that assures performance, security, and stability, and all in a way that microsoft can control. vista rises and falls on, among other things, the performance and consistency of the graphics. they can guarantee the desired behavior by enforcing a degree of compliance at the hardware level. but at an abstracted software level, where things get out of their hands, there’s the potential for some crumby opengl implementation to make windows look bad, as an os. with the compositor disabled, microsoft has effectively given themselves a disclaimer: “if things get screwy, it’s not our fault”, or “we’re sorry for the inconvenience, but we have to change security policies and graphics capabilities because we’re switching over to an api and driver that we have insufficient control over”. hey, if i had some external api in my system that was responsible for the intended look and feel of my os, you can bet your bottom dollar i’d be more than a little concerned, probably reluctant in the extreme to allow this to happen. wouldn’t you?
as has already been said, all this can be made to work. this is just a reminder that microsoft is under no spiritual, ethical, or moral obligation to do this–a reminder that seemed strangely necessary.
Just wondering… say, tomorrow some suit at MS decides that free DirectX is very stupid, not in best interest of MS corporation - after all MS pays people to develop it. And sets the price to 100 000$ for SDK.
microsoft already charges us for the use of d3d… it’s called “windows”. your insinuation is amusing, but preposterous!
That’s why we need other APIs, that’s why monopolies are bad thing. That’s why healthy competition is necessary for proper advancing in any segment, including DirectX future. That’s why this MS move really stinks. Your freedom of choice will not go away all the sudden, it will go step by step… but hey, enjoy while it lasts.
you’re clearly not taking the long view on this one. want to give microsoft a run for the money? then create an os that competes with it! quibbling over a graphics api ain’t going to get you there, buddy. try as you might. create an os better than windows, better to the people that matter… the people that buy operating systems. but that’s another matter entirely. and frankly, i don’t think it’s a very interesting one, least not from where i sit. honestly, the myopic view that the world begins and ends with graphics apis is a bloated self-centered delusion, and has no basis in reality.
And… the only thing that is not quite clear to me is IHV position. Are they blind? They need emails/letters to decide whether or not to take action? I think that they are the ones shooting them self in the foot if this pass. And yes I would like to know their official position regarding the subject OpenGL - Vista. IHVs you could indulge us and post on OpenGL.org your position?!
by all means, send letters, emails, flowers and candy. a friendlier and more cordial attitude will get you further than dispirited tirades and melancholy.
the debate here could/should be a technical one, but who has enough information to say something intelligent in this area? those that could inject some useful inside information are probably not at liberty to discuss it; those that can discuss it probably keep on going after reading all the inept microsoft bashing and otherwise inert commentary. some of us might be interested in hearing some pertinent information, but where’s the motivation in contributing to this thread now? the few good folks that have attempted to contribute useful information have been met with either outright ignorance, or have been browbeaten and stonewalled by on-high wannabees, who view this as nothing more than an exercise in creative writing, or an opportunity to express some deep seeded frustration with life, in a kind of sad, half-assed death match.
sorry.
btw, i want to port some stuff to linux. and guess what? i have to learn opengl! am i pleased? well, i’ve actually learned a thing or two and i think i’m the wiser for it. so yes, i like it!
i wish you the very best the season has to offer,
bonehead
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