Bear in mind that even if the X-Box and Direct-x are successful, which is unlikely given the PS2 and it’s opengl support, OpenGl is an extremely good option for graphics developers in windows, linux, and the future Macintosh OS X. DirectX does have somne good technology, but the fact that it is not portable greatly decreases its appeal to the open-mined developer.
–hades
Originally posted by masterpoi:
[b]As far as I know, there hasn’t been anybody yet who could write an operating system that works on so many different configuration of computers and hardware as microsoft did.
I can’t… Can you?[/b]
I think you’ve got this backwards, to be honest. Windows runs on Intel x86 and compatibles. That’s it. It sort of ran on Alpha for a while, but not very well. By comparison, Linux runs on just about every platform known to man (although again, quality varies).
If you’re talking about device support, then you’ve really got it backwards. Those devices aren’t supported because Bill&Co sat down one day and wrote drivers for them all. They’re supported because all hardware vendors write drivers first and foremost for Windows, because it has by far the biggest market share.
It’s a feedback network effect. Bigger OS market share -> better ROI for vendors -> better driver support -> bigger OS market share. Microsoft’s technical prowess - or lack thereof - has nothing to do with it.
Originally posted by masterpoi:
[b]As far as I know, there hasn’t been anybody yet who could write an operating system that works on so many different configuration of computers and hardware as microsoft did.
I can’t… Can you?[/b]
Yes. Unix. It runs just about every single platform out there. Not only that but it is a gazillion times more robust. Windows only runs on Intel machines, and the only reason it “supports” so many different hardware configs is because the manufacturers make drivers for Windows because they have control of the market.
Funny sidenote, i recently received an old Dell P133 laptop from my brother in PR he’s not using anymore. It has Win2000 installed. It never boots up.
Cheers.
Originally posted by ngill:
heh, the only decent thing microsoft has made is mice… other products are well, I’ll leave that up to Mr. Gates
not even, buy a kensington, they’re erect
Originally posted by Whittick:
[b]EdenMatrix I agree with you on that point absolutely, but I do see a good side to it. If software is easier to use that means more people will use that software (my powers of the obvious are truely amazing). Since more people use the software it drives the industry to develop it creating better and hopefully cheaper software.
Just my 2c
Chris [/b]
You guys are missusing the term “easy-to-use” what you mean is “easy-to-learn.” Bash, vi, etc, are easy to use, far easier to use than any MS product yet concieved. Windows however is “easy to learn”.
Originally posted by masterpoi:
[b]As far as I know, there hasn’t been anybody yet who could write an operating system that works on so many different configuration of computers and hardware as microsoft did.
I can’t… Can you?[/b]
Is this some kind of sick, perverse, joke. or are you just disqustingly ignorant
(I don’t like to flame much, but this one NEEDS it)
Yeah right!!
So why has Billy made it and the others didn’t?
Yust Luck?? I don’t think so…
I bet 80% of you is running Microsoft Visual C++ on a Windows machine.
It’s true that there are some thing Microsoft could have done better…
Their position in today’s computer software market proves that they have been smarter…
Maybe not now anymore, but they have…
I use VC++ 6.0, I’ve used borland also… I like smart indenting…
BUT, I ever since I made my move to linux… I write better code… like stuff compiles on VC fine… but sometimes I have problems on linux (seg faults), but when I clear up the problem… no seg fault, and the programs run fine under vc too… vc should have more rigorous checking… but, now I write well and this happens rarely.
gcc is a very powerful compiler, and it’s free. the only reason I use MSVC is because I got it like 10% the retail price… I mean c’mon, where would I spend my money? MS now supports makefiles because of gcc 
. I mean c’mon where would I spend my money? new graphics board every year? or a new compiler?
ok, that’s a point
Originally posted by yrclrisgrn:
You guys are missusing the term “easy-to-use” what you mean is “easy-to-learn.” Bash, vi, etc, are easy to use, far easier to use than any MS product yet concieved. Windows however is “easy to learn”.
Ok, show me a (blonde?) secretary who writes tex-files with vi. You won’t find many! So where’s your problem? Why can’t everybody use the OS which satisfies his needs?
[This message has been edited by Kilam Malik (edited 07-19-2000).]
If that secretary wrote text-files with vi, she would be a network admin instead 
Seriously though, vi and family are HARD to LEARN. There is a steep learning curve; you don’t learn the full power of these in 10 minutes. But M$ programs are easy to learn, which is why ‘users’ (read: those that use computers like vacuum cleaners) use M$ stuff instead of the more powerfull vi. I’m sure if the secretary took the time and had the patience to learn vi, she would appreciate how easier his/her life would be (appart for the absurd requirement of having everything in Word format)
Ok, here’s my point of view…I didn’t want to make a contribution to that kind of debate, but I can’t help myself to say that:
Most of you who spit on Microsoft are doing that because Microsoft is number one, and made products for EVERYONE !!!
But you guys, you’re not EVERYONE, you’re computer gods !!! How computer gods can use products that were designed for mortals ??? It’s just impossible !!! You’re going to use VI and recompile your kernel every week, waiting for a good graphic card with 3D drivers and use GNU…Good for you !!!
You’re all right !!! Using VC++ is just too easy for you guys!!! Reinvent to world again, it’s a very good waste of time ! After all you’re gods, it’s your job to reinvent the world !!!
I was at first a system programmer, using many OSes, NeXT, RiscOS, unix, and Win…
And you know what ??? My favorite one is Win, why ??? Because it’s the most complete one !!! It’s made for everyone !
Of course it’s far far far from being perfect, but the job was far away harder than making an Unix !!!
Just look with all the stuffs you can do with a Win95, and how a WinNT/2K is powerful!
Some stupid guys will answer: blue screen 5 times/day (somebody already did if I remember)! Blue Screens flashes for driver/kernel failure, just buy a better card from a more reliable manufacturer and you’ll see the differences !!! And it’s not the Microsoft’s fault!
I like Microsoft (bouh, shame on me) because they made things evolving !!! More than other companies !!!
I’m just starting OpenGL, and you know what is my opinion about it ??? WHAT A FxCKING MESS !!! DirectX (ok, from the 5 version) is easier and more coherent (in my humble mortal opinion) than OpenGL!!!
So why I’m learning OpenGL ??? Just because of the Extension mechanism which let me exploit my GeForce2 (I can’t wait the DX8 drivers to use this great card!)
And a last thing, Mr Carmack is the god of every god, and that’s why he likes to use OGL!!! He can’t use DX, that’d make him a mortal!!!
That was rude, sorry, but I’m seeing those stupid debates too often for me to calm down!
Gates is a great guy, but it’s a business guy, not a computer guy!!!
PS:That was my only message about this debate, and I’m sure it’s already too many!
As I mentioned above…to get away from windows…use a mac! I love macs…i mean everything can be done in one click…its so simple! That way I can make sex logs of my adventures with my icons very quickly…what turns me on the most is the little beep sound the older macs use to make when you maxed out the volume! Mac OS XXX is the sexiest operating system ever oh ya baby!
SHaggy
Although I like everyone else say that I hate Microsoft, and windows, I actually think microsoft did a very good job. Sure it is not very stable but that is just one “minor” problem. The system has almost no learning curve…which makes it excellent for a beginner(kinda like a mac) but on the flipside(unlike a mac) it has power underneath this simplicity! I guess I can’t really explain what I mean by power…but I still feel like I have complete control of my system(like the good old days with dos) everything of mine is customized and optomized…microsoft has done a very good job in their interfaces…it is a very logical operating system when it comes to commands…as in the right mouse button brings up what you would expect. Macs on the other side have the simple interface but thats it! There is no power underneath…and also the mac interface is not logical at all! If you ever have a problem on a mac…you need an expert to come and fix it, but on windows you can normally do it yourself.
I am not saying I think windows is way better than all other OS’s though…Linux is on its way up and i have heard good things about it…and unix will always be there. If anyone company/OS is the worst…I would have to say its apple and there damn macs!!
As for D3D vs OGL, from what I have seen opengl looks simpler to use and much more powerful than d3d…but that does not mean directx sucks, i love ddraw, dinput, dsound, dmusic! Microsoft has done a very good job so far…and the only reason why they have so many bugs is because of the power the user is given to dig into the depths of the OS and thats where the bugs are found for all OSs. Microsoft is actually able to pinpoint and solve most of our problems.
And last but surely not lease, Microsoft Office and Microsoft Visual Studio are by far the best(and I SERIOUSLY mean this) and I mean BEST tools I have ever used!!!
Damn this is much more pro-everythingmicrosoft than I was thinking but oh well…I love office, visual studio, directx, and windows is almost up there…just fix the stability, and give me a better console(like an xterm!)!
I couldn’t have said it better;
All this bickering about choosing sides is rather counter-productive. As long there are things like opengl to give other os’s a chance, the actual competition will result in better products from all of the different companies.
Originally posted by blide:
Macs on the other side have the simple interface but thats it! There is no power underneath…and also the mac interface is not logical at all! If you ever have a problem on a mac…you need an expert to come and fix it, but on windows you can normally do it yourself.
Honestly, i can respect your opinion on Microsoft, but don’t say stuff about the macintosh which is not true. I think the current macintoshes are just as powerful as the PC’s out there and the interface is just as easy to use and in my opinion simpler. Most people don’t ‘understand’ it because they’ve used Windows all their life and immediately give up to what is not familiar. As for having a technician come over to fix the mac, i wouldn’t know because i’ve never had a problem with it. I flipped the keyboard up once to put some memory in and that’s it. Works like charm. I play games on it, do Engineering stuff, do 3D and programming and it all runs smootly and consistently. As I said, my Win2K laptop never boots up. =)
Cheers.
I apologize for what I said about macs…I mam just very opinionated about them
You are right I have not used it much so it does not seem as good windows. This may be just that I started learning with the PC and DOS and moved to windows, or it actually may be true…but i just find windows much more logical than MacOS when it comes to changing things and etc… Of course it could just be microsoft warped my mind into what is normal and what is not! oh well…i guess i shouldn’t talk about something I don’t know much about!
At the end of the day, long drawn out debates about OS’s are pointless. I program on a ‘wintel’ PC and on an SGI machine using irix. With careful coding programs are easily portable between the two. OS’s are designed to give an environment in which you can use tools to do what you want quickly and efficiently.
I’m personally of the opinion that windows doesn’t suck for this single reason…
If I write and compile a program, I know that the majority of people will be able to run it on a windows based PC. (no offense to macOS or any other OS)
This is the one thing that has allowed such rapid development of the PC over recent years.
It’s the same with D3D and openGL. You can argue over which is best all you like, but at the end of the day, they both do the same thing:
ALLOW YOU TO DEVELOP APPLICATIONS THAT CONFORM TO A STANDARD. YOU CAN BE CONFIDENT THAT ANY APPLICATIONS CONFORMING TO THAT STANDARD, WILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE LARGEST POSSIBLE TARGET AUDIENCE WITH THE MINIMUM OF HEADACHES FOR THE PROGRAMMER.
I don’t dislike either d3d, windows or any other microsoft application. I actually have respect for them. I know they are not perfect but, without them, my productivity on a computer would be limited. (and lets face it, I have not the experiance or time available to code something better)
Having used irix, you soon find that there may be something that you wish to do, and you think back to your trusty pc and think, “God, i wish i had photoshop right now, and my compiler, and my graphics package, and some quality games etc etc, all in one ‘does everything’ package” (may do some things better than others, but hey!)
Sorry for my rant…
[This message has been edited by Rob The Bloke (edited 07-20-2000).]
Originally posted by TheWizard:
I’m just starting OpenGL, and you know what is my opinion about it ??? WHAT A FxCKING MESS !!! DirectX (ok, from the 5 version) is easier and more coherent (in my humble mortal opinion) than OpenGL!!!
so… how many lines do you have to write to put a triangle on the screen with DX? 5000? hey buddy… I can write a program in less that 1% of that, that’d do the same thing…
Guess what!!! if microsooft is so good, why does it need to update dx every year?!?